“Do me a favor. Tell my kids I loved them very much. … All right, you alien assholes! In the words of my generation: Up Yours!”
It was through this post that I discovered this post (I am now taking part in this). This post is in response to the first post.
Daniel opens his post with the following line:
“When a PC dies in a campaign and they’re not supposed to, what do you do?”
What do you mean by “not supposed to” die? Are you insane? What is DnD without PC death? I must immediately write 10 000 words of abuse or I shall not be able to sleep tonight… and then I realised that I was thinking like a player and not as a fellow GM. As a GM, I would rephrase the question like this:
“When a PC dies unexpectedly, what do you do?”
Hopefully, in the near future, I’ll get around to answering this from a me-as-GM point of view. Today, however, I want to answer from a me-as-player point of view.
Short answer: In the bulk of circumstances, I expect nothing special from the GM.
As player, I feel that I am responsible for my own fun and the fun of the other players and GM, just as they are responsible for my fun. Being a responsible player, I would try my best to not hamper anybody’s fun (including the GM’s) in any event. Easier said than done, but I try.
Ideally, I do not want my PC to be made into a crucial part of a GM’s monologue. It’s our story, not his story alone. I prefer taking part in stories of the world the PCs are in, rather than stories of the PCs. I do not want the world to come to a halt just because my PC died. It can place far too much of a burden on the player to, for example, stick to playing a character he does not like or enjoy playing.
DnD is a game that is inherently filled with danger and the threat of death. If it wasn’t, then we wouldn’t need the dice. It’s up to the GM to challenge the PCs and these challenges may result in the death of a PC. The players know this, or should know this, coming into the game. Thus, I, at least, do not want to be babied by the GM. It’s up to the individual player and the party as a whole to acknowledge the dangers of adventuring and plan for death: deals with NPC churches, magic items, spells, wills and etc.. It’s up to the players to make plans in case of death and help prompt ideas for the GM to incorporate those plans into the game. If a new character has to be written in, it is up to both player and GM to write that character in. The continued fun is everybody’s responsibility.
Basically, the core of my argument: I do not want my character death to be cheapened by cheap GM tricks.
This still doesn’t answer the essential question “how do you handle PC death”?
There is the possibility of “cheap tricks”, as you point out – but there are also perfectly acceptable solutions. Those that tempt the party as a whole – the GM can place two mutually exclusive rewards: one to ressurect the dead PC, and another that rewards the remainder of the party. This opens a whole avenue of player interaction and roleplay as moral choices need to be made.
Alternatively, the death of a PC can become part of the background scenery of the campaign (kids that the PC may have cared for might pop up on the streets now as urchins begging for morsels – not to the party, just in the background). When we die, there is a world that changes because of it. Sometimes in big ways, sometimes in very small ones. Death isn’t so bad, if we can see the hole we leave in the lives of the world.
Still another option is for a PC to die by leaving play into a side-plot. There is some pleasure to be gained by having the party venture into the depths of hell to retrieve the soul of the dead PC.
Comment by trashcondor — 13 August 2008 @ 12:07 pm
Yes, I didn’t answer the question from a GM POV and my PC answer was heavily biased by my own ideas of what a player should be like. EDIT: My answer as a GM would be completely different to the one above.
Option 1: Looking for trouble. I wouldn’t want to be responsible for preventing the rest of the party from getting the cool loot. I wouldn’t want to play a character that literally owes another PC their life (beyond the normal fighting side-by-side thing).
Option 2: I like, but if the player still wants to play, a new character has to be written in somehow.
Option 3: While the rest of the party are out on a side quest to save the soul of a fallen comrade, what does the dead player do? Not play? Play a different character?
Comment by jatori — 13 August 2008 @ 12:24 pm
Sweet! Thanks for participating! I’ll be sure to include this in the Carnival summary at the end of the month. Game on!
Comment by Jonathan — 13 August 2008 @ 1:56 pm
sometimes “cheap” DM tricks aren’t so cheap……remember what happend to us in avinfoo’s dwarf thingy?
Comment by peasantbutcher — 13 August 2008 @ 6:11 pm
In my defense, I was looking at it from the standpoint of a relatively new DM with a new player, or just a new player, who doesn’t get the whole D&D thing quite yet. He could be a good friend, and a good player, but the advanced player thinking isn’t in his head yet. He does something stupid, ignoring a poison, and gets himself killed.
In order to keep the player in the game, but give him proper “punishment” for a small act of stupidity, keep him out for at least thirty minutes while you figure out how to slightly bring him back into the game without altering the story. I know it may not be the best solution, or the only one, but I feel it’s good advice for fairly new DM’s who are having, or may have had this problem in the past.
Great response, by the way. I like the feedback from a player’s point of view.
Comment by Daniel — 14 August 2008 @ 2:50 am
Player Perspective: As a player I don’t want my PC to die and generally play to avoid death. If it does happen, I don’t want it to be an *oops* the giant double-crit me while I was still in my bedroll. If death comes on the wings of my own stupid decision (“Hey giant! Over here!”) then by all means DM, make me a pancake. I was asking for it after all. And its a pretty heroic way to go. The bedroll death, not so much.
As for a new player’s PC dying because of unforeseen dangers. It happens. Though maybe the DM could give a few hints to make the new player aware of the possibility of these dangers without giving them away. But if these subtle warnings are ignored (this door handle looks a little melted…oh well) and the “death” can’t be down-graded to crippling pain (was that your arm?) and the PC fainting from loss of blood, then obviously the player is not getting something and its time to roll up a new character.
Comment by avianfoo — 15 August 2008 @ 8:06 am
Have an NPC deal with him. But with the healing give him a good talking to… how dumb and stupid he was, and then some meta-gaming… telling him what was a good idea.
Ie. Wow, you’ve been burnt really badly. What did you do? Open a treasure chest *without checking for traps?!*
Or Your Majesty, please forgive this ignorant idiot a little bit of leeway, he is new to the culture, and doesn’t know the proper levels of respect.
And then if the character still wants to mess around further go: “He gestures with his hand for you to be quiet, and you for some reason are unable to speak”
It’s not a spell (no saving throw) … it’s a Movie sequence…
Comment by Reenen — 17 August 2008 @ 9:48 am
[...] are perhaps deserving of their own posts. The first few paragraphs, though, reminded me of one of my old posts from last year. I’ve been meaning to write a follow-up to it for along time, but it seems [...]
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